May 22, 2021

Mat Walklate interview

Mat Walklate interview
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Season 1 Diatonic Harmonica Blues Harmonica Irish Harmonica Traditional Harmonica

Mat Walklate joins me on episode 39. 

Mat is based in Manchester and has worked as a professional musician throughout his life, playing mainly blues and traditional music using a variety of harmonicas. He started out with a love for Sonny Boy Williamson II, and was soon touring Europe in a blues band. His interest in traditional music came from learning the tin whistle, and he also picked up other instruments for this genre, including the flute and pipes.

Mat supplements his playing income through teaching, with one-on-one, group and online teaching. 

Devoted to laying down some tracks, he has plenty of albums and online material available, including various efforts at recording songs with a multitude of harmonicas to accompany his deep vocals. Something that he’s really developed over the last year during lockdown.


Links:
Mat's website: http://matwalklate.co.uk

For lessons, contact Mat here:
http://www.matwalklate.co.uk/contact.html

BandCamp:
https://matwalklate.bandcamp.com/

Soundcloud:
https://soundcloud.com/search?q=mat%20walklate

Traditional harmonica album:
https://matwalklate.bandcamp.com/album/traditional-harmonica

Mat's Music Guru courses:
https://www.musicgurus.com/gurus/matwalklate/?fbclid=IwAR3ThLVldrYuz69xKXc6DlczKi1A3PjKwL7sRUZmphzj5wZF9OydxVH4NQk

Irish Ceilidh Band:
https://www.lastminutemusicians.com/members/mat-walklates-irish-ceili-band.html


Videos:

With Tom Attah:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F81W3uV82IA

With Alex Haynes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6VfOWdSOE0

With Paolo Fuschi:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxwNXn7FZgk

Promo video for Seydel Lightning harmonica:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxgbnojKAQs


Podcast website:
https://www.harmonicahappyhour.com

Donations:
If you want to make a voluntary donation to help support the running costs of the podcast then please use this link (or visit the podcast website link above):
https://paypal.me/harmonicahappyhour?locale.x=en_GB

Spotify Playlist:
Also check out the Spotify Playlist, which contains most of the songs discussed in the podcast:
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5QC6RF2VTfs4iPuasJBqwT?si=M-j3IkiISeefhR7ybm9qIQ

Podcast sponsors:
This podcast is sponsored by SEYDEL harmonicas - visit the oldest harmonica factory in the world at www.seydel1847.com  or on Facebook or Instagram at SEYDEL HARMONICAS
and Blows Me Away Productions: http://www.blowsmeaway.com/

Support the show

01:15 - Mat is from Stoke-on-Trent, but now based out of Manchester

02:16 - Sonny Boy II was Mat’s first harmonica influence

02:57 - Also plays flute, pipes, tin whistle and some guitar

04:11 - What got Mat into playing traditional music, and different types of harmonicas he uses on that

05:28 - Vibrant Irish and Blues scenes in Manchester

06:43 - Mat won a blues harmonica competition at Burnley Blues festival

07:39 - How Mat learned to play harmonica

09:08 - Resources available on internet to learn nowadays

10:07 - Mat teaches harmonica and advantages of one-on-one tuition

13:45 - First recordings of Mat in the 1990s and touring Europe

17:41 - Irish music albums made with The House Devils

18:54 - Album combining flute and harmonica and another album of traditional music

20:12 - Album with Dick Farrelly

21:24 - Plays in a Ceili band for dances

23:26 - How Mat approaches playing jazz songs on diatonic

25:52 - Plays some jaw harp

27:24 - Blues album with Paolo Fuschi

28:19 - Now plays in a duo either with Alex Haynes or Tom Attah

30:12 - Sea of Blues album in 2018

30:45 - Dub song on Sea of Blues album played on chromatic

33:37 - Playing trad music on the chromatic

34:44 - Rivers of Jordan song

36:19 - Mat has recorded some songs with multiple harmonicas

38:34 - Chromatica harmonica: with continuous chromatic scale

39:20 - Mat has been releasing various songs recorded at home over the last year, and the basic set-up he uses

41:34 - Mics used in Mat’s home recordings and putting his amp on the toilet

43:00 - Has always made sure he lays down some tracks to release, including over last year

43:22 - The value of recording to really nail a song

44:16 - Mat has had a lot of his songs played on radio, and tips on how to do that

46:16 - Played on a Sky TV sci-fi TV show

47:22 - Appeared playing on UK TV show 8 of 10 Cats Does Countdown

48:31 - 10 minute question

49:12 - Mat is a Seydel endorser and prefers 1847 classic with wooden comb

49:59 - Seydel Symphony chromatic and it’s heated case

50:35 - Harmonicas used with traditional music

52:22 - Playing Bluegrass on diatonic

53:18 - Tunings and overblows

54:41 - Embouchre

55:34 - Amps

57:57 - Mics

58:10 - Effects pedals

58:23 - Future plans

WEBVTT

00:00:00.002 --> 00:00:02.164
Matt Walklake joins me on episode 39.

00:00:02.884 --> 00:00:11.332
Matt is based in Manchester and has worked as a professional musician throughout his life, playing mainly blues and traditional music using a variety of harmonicas.

00:00:12.092 --> 00:00:17.496
He started out with a love for Sonny Boy Williamson II and was soon touring Europe in a blues band.

00:00:17.856 --> 00:00:25.283
His interest in traditional music came from learning the tin whistle and he also picked up other instruments for this genre including the flute and pipes.

00:00:25.864 --> 00:01:13.986
Matt supplements his playing income through teaching with one-on-one group teachings and online devoted to laying down some tracks he has plenty of albums and online material available including various efforts recording songs with a multitude of harmonicas to accompany his deep vocals something that he's really developed over the last year during the lockdown Hello, Matt Walkley, and welcome to the podcast.

00:01:14.406 --> 00:01:15.007
Thank you, Neil.

00:01:15.346 --> 00:01:17.631
You're from the northwest of England, like myself.

00:01:17.771 --> 00:01:21.254
So you're originally from Stoke-on-Trent, and then you moved up to Manchester, yeah?

00:01:21.656 --> 00:01:22.376
That's true, yeah.

00:01:22.716 --> 00:01:23.879
I moved in 1988.

00:01:24.760 --> 00:01:26.141
And

00:01:26.442 --> 00:01:29.686
was that to, you know, take on the harmonica Manchester scene?

00:01:29.727 --> 00:01:34.534
No, it was to go to university, but I never left.

00:01:34.977 --> 00:01:36.082
You never left university?

00:01:36.584 --> 00:01:38.070
No, I never left Manchester.

00:01:38.513 --> 00:01:39.998
Still at the University of Harmonica.

00:01:40.120 --> 00:01:41.566
So what did you do at university?

00:01:42.590 --> 00:01:44.115
Believe it or not, zoology.

00:01:44.737 --> 00:01:48.683
That's amazing you should say that because my daughter's currently thinking about doing a zoology course.

00:01:48.823 --> 00:01:53.811
So will she turn into a harmonica player if she studies zoology?

00:01:54.173 --> 00:02:02.204
No, I would assume she'd be a much better student than I ever was and take it seriously and not be swayed by music.

00:02:03.006 --> 00:02:10.277
So is it when you moved to Manchester that you got into music or were you into playing music when you were younger?

00:02:10.849 --> 00:02:15.713
I started with the harmonica when I was around the age of 16.

00:02:15.734 --> 00:02:25.402
I heard a recording which turned out to be Sonny Boy Williamson II, or Rice Miller, as he's known.

00:02:25.582 --> 00:02:30.447
The sound just grabbed me, and I thought, I want to get into that.

00:02:30.526 --> 00:02:32.408
I want to try and do that.

00:02:32.688 --> 00:02:36.671
So I asked for a harmonica for my birthday, and I got one.

00:02:37.052 --> 00:02:39.014
And it's been downhill ever since.

00:02:40.175 --> 00:02:40.816
You better watch out.

00:02:40.816 --> 00:02:43.879
Do you play

00:02:43.980 --> 00:03:02.526
other instruments now, such as the flute and the Aeolian pipes, however you say it?

00:03:02.586 --> 00:03:04.128
So they came after us, did they?

00:03:04.737 --> 00:03:11.060
Well, I started on the tin whistle around the same time as the harmonica, and I played those...

00:03:11.746 --> 00:03:16.729
Just those instruments, just diatonic and tin whistle for maybe two or three years.

00:03:17.010 --> 00:03:22.795
And then eventually I got a flute and much later a set of Ilan pipes.

00:03:23.235 --> 00:03:29.300
It's pronounced Ilan, which apparently is Gaelic for elbow, because we have bellows on them.

00:03:29.561 --> 00:03:31.622
You use your elbow to inflate them.

00:03:31.802 --> 00:03:32.663
You don't blow into them.

00:03:33.365 --> 00:03:34.985
And I own a guitar as well.

00:03:35.006 --> 00:03:37.467
I wouldn't call myself a guitarist, but I know three chords.

00:03:38.169 --> 00:03:39.349
And of course you sing too.

00:03:39.789 --> 00:03:40.070
I do.

00:03:40.390 --> 00:03:41.711
As you say, you started playing diatonic.

00:03:41.711 --> 00:03:51.582
tonic and tin whistle together at more or less the same time so were at that time you you were into playing traditional music or obviously you'd listen to sunny boy as well so was it a mixture of both right from the beginning

00:03:51.862 --> 00:04:05.617
on the harmonica predominantly at the beginning it was mainly blues later on started the uh herculean task of trying to play traditional music on the harmonica and it's not as you know yourself it's not the easiest thing in the world

00:04:05.877 --> 00:04:12.844
it's very popular now isn't a lot of people do that and it sounds great on the harmonica doesn't it that traditional music i mean what made you pick up to to play traditional songs?

00:04:13.165 --> 00:04:16.389
It kind of fed in from playing the whistle and the flute.

00:04:16.769 --> 00:04:20.553
I thought I'd try to learn to do it on the harmonica.

00:04:20.814 --> 00:04:25.538
So I listened to people like the Murphy family from County Waxford.

00:04:25.798 --> 00:04:31.485
It was a father and two sons produced a wonderful album many years ago on the Claddagh label.

00:04:32.005 --> 00:04:35.490
I loved their playing and so that was a good starting point.

00:04:35.810 --> 00:04:51.704
Over the years, I learned to retune the diatonic slightly for Irish music, so the so-called Paddy Richter tuning, bringing the three blow notes up a tone, usually on a G harmonica, so it gives you a note of E, which makes playing the tunes a lot easier.

00:04:52.144 --> 00:04:54.505
You're not having to bend to achieve that note.

00:04:55.226 --> 00:05:12.132
I broke a lot of diatonics, but I eventually learned how to retune them and also started playing a lot more on the chromatic because that gives us, obviously, a full scale and also the opportunity to play in different keys more easily and also the tremolo harmonica.

00:05:12.333 --> 00:05:16.723
Sad to say I don't play much tremolo these days but I did go through a phase of...

00:05:17.569 --> 00:05:18.471
playing quite a lot.

00:05:18.752 --> 00:05:20.795
I actually quite like playing the tremolo.

00:05:21.315 --> 00:05:28.346
So what was it like then around Manchester at this time playing the harmonica with a decent blues scene and an Irish scene I think there as well for you?

00:05:28.666 --> 00:05:38.903
Yeah, there was a long-standing and vibrant Irish music scene there because obviously a huge expatriate population and then their children and their children.

00:05:39.242 --> 00:05:40.404
There were lots of sessions.

00:05:40.464 --> 00:05:45.072
You could go to a session every night of the week and kind of learn your craft.

00:05:51.521 --> 00:06:08.305
It's an oral tradition.

00:06:08.627 --> 00:06:13.173
Most of the tunes are learned by ear and it was quite welcoming and friendly.

00:06:13.634 --> 00:06:42.281
environment to go and sit in and pick up the tunes and surprisingly how quick you achieve a repertoire of tunes you know it was good for that and also there was a blue sea in Manchester it wasn't enormous but you know there was a fair bit going on which was good again because it gave people like me the opportunity to play and to go to jam sessions and to meet other musicians and hone that craft as well

00:06:42.625 --> 00:06:49.093
Yeah, and again, the northwest of England's got quite a good scene because you had the Burnley Blues Festival and the Cone Blues Festival stood in there.

00:06:49.113 --> 00:06:53.017
So I think that partly drew me into around there as well.

00:06:53.079 --> 00:06:54.841
Did you attend those festivals?

00:06:55.380 --> 00:06:55.721
I did.

00:06:55.742 --> 00:07:00.146
In fact, I won the Blues Harmonica Contest at Burnley.

00:07:00.427 --> 00:07:02.889
They used to have a championship every year.

00:07:02.910 --> 00:07:05.653
I believe it was 19...

00:07:06.146 --> 00:07:32.512
90 or 91 when I won the Blues Harmonica competition which made me feel very happy and I played at the festival with a band that I was later joined a year or two later and we saw some great acts at the festival like Rick Estrin and little Charlie Beatty We supported Joe Louis Walker once and that was very good to see as well.

00:07:32.774 --> 00:07:34.079
Fantastic band.

00:07:34.721 --> 00:07:37.692
So yeah, it's a shame that Burnley is now defunct.

00:07:37.951 --> 00:07:39.398
It used to be quite a nice festival.

00:07:39.841 --> 00:07:45.350
As to your development and learning, how did you get on to learning the harmonica?

00:07:45.389 --> 00:07:47.492
Did you listen to records and playing by ear?

00:07:47.853 --> 00:07:48.875
Yes, pretty much.

00:07:49.797 --> 00:07:54.723
Because back in the Stone Age when I first started, there was no internet.

00:07:55.004 --> 00:07:58.649
The resources for learning harmonica were few and far between.

00:07:58.670 --> 00:08:03.737
I think it was mainly the sort of Mel Bay harmonica books, if you remember those.

00:08:04.129 --> 00:09:07.831
learn blues harmonica learn country harmonica etc so for me it was a case of and it was records as well when mainly when i first started it was vinyl i used to have to do things like put weights on the on the record to slow it down because occasionally in the recording and producing process records would be sped up or slowed down so if say say little walter for instance played a a song on an a harmonica when you listen to the record it sounds like it's in A flat or B flat depending on what they've done with it sometimes to slow down the record ever so slightly to break the pitch because obviously when you first start to play the harmonica you don't have every key I only had I couldn't afford loads so I only had a few keys but yeah listening to records and what little might appear on the television occasionally there would be documentaries or interviews with musicians is that famous film obviously of Sonny Boy at Granada Studios in Manchester.

00:09:08.332 --> 00:09:30.196
So yeah you talk about learning in the way that we used to learn and I learnt too by basically learning from records and what do you think then about the difference between then and now where people have got tons and tons of resources on the internet and teachers on the internet and all sorts of videos and I mean what do you think the difference do you think there's better then or now or I guess what you take from it?

00:09:30.676 --> 00:10:07.975
I think you have to say it is better now because everything so much more accessible and there are so many resources out there everything from backing tracks on say YouTube which are free and great to play along with and to work things out and to learn how to create a solo for instance music I teach online.

00:10:08.034 --> 00:10:12.379
I teach via things like Skype and Zoom and those kind of things.

00:10:12.701 --> 00:10:16.926
So it is more egalitarian, if you like, and more accessible.

00:10:17.706 --> 00:10:23.072
As with everything with the internet, there's good and bad and indifferent stuff out there.

00:10:23.354 --> 00:10:39.284
And I'm not saying this just because I teach harmonica privately and in classes, but nothing can really beat a face-to-face teaching scenario because you can ask questions and you can ask questions in the moment and you can, You can see the student and the student can see you.

00:10:39.666 --> 00:10:44.413
So you can look at things as basic as how they're holding the harmonica.

00:10:44.653 --> 00:10:45.735
I go back to what I said before.

00:10:45.816 --> 00:10:46.537
It's a great thing.

00:10:46.697 --> 00:10:48.039
It's a wonderful resource.

00:10:48.340 --> 00:10:54.289
But at the end of the day, nothing really beats a face-to-face chat about playing the harmonica.

00:10:55.457 --> 00:10:56.359
Yeah, of course.

00:10:56.418 --> 00:10:59.280
I think you've got to separate the wheat from the chaff, haven't you?

00:10:59.321 --> 00:11:01.423
That's the important thing when there's so much on offer.

00:11:01.482 --> 00:11:05.366
I think if you've got a quality resource, then yeah, fantastic.

00:11:05.386 --> 00:11:09.769
I mean, the ability to be able to access so many players, it's just incredible, isn't it?

00:11:09.971 --> 00:11:21.880
The only bugbear I have with some of the online things is that certain people advise beginners to tilt the harmonica downwards so that they can achieve single notes more easily, which works.

00:11:21.961 --> 00:11:22.480
It does work.

00:11:22.682 --> 00:11:36.075
But unfortunately, if you persist with that technique, you'll never be able to bend the notes effectively you won't have the control so that's that's the only thing that i sort of come across now and again i think that's that's not really great advice

00:11:36.696 --> 00:11:51.792
i think you know maybe it's nostalgia where you think if you kind of absorb yourself and learn yourself from records that is somehow that makes you you know kind of go through the pain a little bit more but it's probably not true is i mean like you say if you've got a bit of guidance that's going to help for sure i

00:11:52.173 --> 00:11:58.082
think it's a much slower process yeah i think the way i learned and And I assume that it's very similar to the way you learned.

00:11:58.283 --> 00:12:06.163
We do go up quite a lot of blind alleys and also are unaware of things that the harmonica can and can't do.

00:12:06.725 --> 00:12:10.092
These days, within seconds, you can find an answer.

00:12:10.466 --> 00:12:11.226
to a question.

00:12:11.346 --> 00:12:13.168
Things can be explained extremely quickly.

00:12:13.729 --> 00:12:25.219
For instance, obviously, when I first started, I knew nothing about bending the notes, nothing about holding the harmonica correctly, nothing about using cupping techniques and all these kind of vibrato and all these kind of things.

00:12:25.479 --> 00:12:29.241
So I think it does quicken the process, modern technology.

00:12:29.702 --> 00:12:30.844
And you mentioned you're on teaching.

00:12:30.884 --> 00:12:33.306
You've got some online lessons on Music Guru, haven't you?

00:12:33.365 --> 00:12:34.346
I'll put a link onto that.

00:12:34.606 --> 00:12:34.886
Yes.

00:12:35.668 --> 00:12:49.542
If you look at those, in my defense, I was ill I had a rotten cold and I had to get a 5am train from Manchester to London and then navigate the tube to Hoxton.

00:12:50.042 --> 00:12:53.806
And then they recorded me solidly for something like six hours.

00:12:54.427 --> 00:12:57.951
So I look like the living dead on that video.

00:12:58.370 --> 00:13:01.274
So teaching is quite an important part of you.

00:13:01.374 --> 00:13:03.736
You work full-time as a musician, don't you?

00:13:03.777 --> 00:13:05.739
So that's how you supplement your income.

00:13:05.938 --> 00:13:06.940
Has that helped over the last year?

00:13:06.960 --> 00:13:08.682
Have you managed to do some online teaching?

00:13:09.023 --> 00:13:10.384
I've done a little bit of online teaching.

00:13:10.384 --> 00:13:31.408
teaching and it has helped thankfully just in the past week I managed to restart face to face lessons which is wonderful it's been nice to sit across a table from someone and teach them how to play the harmonica Skype and these other things are useful but like I said nothing beats being there in person

00:13:32.048 --> 00:13:39.571
and I'll put a link your contact details in case people want to get in touch about your own lessons and is the best way to do that through your email?

00:13:40.111 --> 00:13:41.312
Yeah, email's probably best.

00:13:41.773 --> 00:13:45.676
So getting on then onto your, you know, starting to the recordings you've done.

00:13:45.755 --> 00:13:51.120
So the first one I found of you is with the Moochers in the mid-90s.

00:13:51.181 --> 00:13:53.984
Is that one of your first bands and first recordings you made?

00:13:54.443 --> 00:13:59.427
The first blues band I ever recorded with was called the Back Scratchers.

00:14:00.489 --> 00:15:16.817
And I think we recorded a tape recording back in the days of cassette tapes and then shortly after I formed The Moochers with a guitarist called Andy Pyatt who's a fantastic guitar player who now lives down in Bath and we did three albums with The Moochers and toured all over Europe and had some good fun and I think without sounding arrogant we recorded a couple of nice songs and funnily enough I spoke to Andy recently and he'd been listening to our old albums from the 90s and I had another listen and I thought actually they're not as bad as I thought it's a bit naive because I was only in my early 20s when we first started doing it so you don't know as much as you think you do at that age music The weirdest thing about listening to the very first recording I did was I sound like I sound about 12 because as you guys can hear I've got a relatively deep voice but these early recordings sound like I'm on helium.

00:15:17.090 --> 00:15:19.592
It's got a bit more gravelly over the years.

00:15:19.633 --> 00:15:21.515
Were you doing all the singing with this band?

00:15:21.956 --> 00:15:22.116
Yeah.

00:15:22.677 --> 00:15:27.924
So you were touring Europe at this stage then with these guys as well, like you say, so pretty successful early on.

00:15:27.945 --> 00:15:30.227
I'm not sure you could make a career in music, did it?

00:15:30.327 --> 00:15:37.758
Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't say we earned a vast fortune, but we made a little bit of money and we had a lot of fun.

00:15:38.402 --> 00:15:42.687
And we got to places that we might not otherwise have seen.

00:15:42.726 --> 00:15:48.052
We went all over Ireland, a lot of time in Belgium and Holland, a little bit in Germany, Switzerland, France.

00:15:48.633 --> 00:15:49.073
It was good.

00:15:49.894 --> 00:15:56.360
I think probably in the 90s, we probably didn't think it was a great music scene then, but looking back then, what do you think?

00:15:56.421 --> 00:15:58.322
Has it got worse these days?

00:15:58.364 --> 00:16:00.306
Was there a reason a good music scene back then?

00:16:00.806 --> 00:16:01.667
In some ways, yes.

00:16:01.687 --> 00:16:02.408
In some ways, no.

00:16:02.988 --> 00:16:07.894
I think looking back, it seemed to be a little easier to get a decent gig.

00:16:08.385 --> 00:16:09.248
Back in those days.

00:16:09.268 --> 00:16:11.390
I think it's a little harder now.

00:16:13.073 --> 00:16:14.918
And what about, you know, for sort of blues bands?

00:16:15.038 --> 00:16:18.104
I mean, you know, it seems to be that blues is reasonably popular then.

00:16:18.124 --> 00:16:19.787
And yeah, you can still get blues gigs now.

00:16:19.886 --> 00:16:22.370
But yeah, maybe not quite as popular as it was back then.

00:16:22.410 --> 00:16:22.431
I

00:16:22.711 --> 00:16:24.215
think it's like most things.

00:16:24.475 --> 00:16:26.238
It comes in waves.

00:16:27.080 --> 00:16:30.044
There's peaks and troughs of popularity.

00:16:30.385 --> 00:16:32.669
And I'm hoping that it will peak soon.

00:16:32.802 --> 00:16:33.844
again soon

00:16:34.784 --> 00:16:43.599
yeah we're hoping that you know now we're coming out of the pandemic and the pubs are opening and the other venues that yeah we'll get some great enthusiasm for music

00:16:44.341 --> 00:16:55.558
it's been quite heartwarming for me that the venues that I've played in the past have recently been getting in touch and booking us to play blues so I'm looking forward to that

00:16:56.220 --> 00:16:59.424
yeah good to see they've still survived all this as well

00:17:00.046 --> 00:17:00.125
yeah

00:17:00.673 --> 00:17:02.998
So you played with the Moochers through the 90s.

00:17:03.899 --> 00:17:05.922
What came next from the Moochers for you?

00:17:06.323 --> 00:17:18.563
After the Moochers, myself and Andy, the guitar player, also recorded an album under the moniker Depot, if you're American, which was more acoustic blues.

00:17:19.683 --> 00:17:23.230
We generally performed as a duo or occasionally with a double bass band.

00:17:23.362 --> 00:17:35.232
Then Andy emigrated to France, so I continued with that name, with a Manchester guitarist and singer called Fall Bradley, who was an extremely good country blues player.

00:17:35.973 --> 00:17:40.718
We, again, went to Ireland and a few other places with that.

00:17:41.318 --> 00:17:47.525
All during this time, obviously, I was still playing Irish music and formed a band called the House Devils.

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:00.000
.

00:18:02.882 --> 00:18:11.694
We're the guitarist and singer called Matt Fahey.

00:18:12.036 --> 00:18:19.587
We have had the All-Ireland Fiddle Champion, who happens to be from Manchester, guitar, fiddle, flute, harmonica, etc.

00:18:19.607 --> 00:18:23.493
And we did two studio albums with the House Devils.

00:18:23.905 --> 00:18:25.808
Is that one of those Cold in April?

00:18:26.029 --> 00:18:28.374
Cold in April was a solo effort.

00:18:28.713 --> 00:18:35.987
It is Irish music, and it does involve the people that I've just previously mentioned, but I did that as a little solo album.

00:18:36.607 --> 00:18:38.570
I managed to put some bass harmonica on that album.

00:18:49.108 --> 00:18:49.470
MUSIC PLAYS

00:18:54.721 --> 00:18:58.285
I mean, before that as well, you recorded a harmonica and flute album.

00:18:58.305 --> 00:18:59.786
Was that a self-produced album?

00:18:59.826 --> 00:19:03.348
That was a kind of mixture, obviously a mixture of flute and harmonica.

00:19:03.789 --> 00:19:04.550
Yes, yes.

00:19:04.671 --> 00:19:08.013
I recorded that in somebody's spare room in Blackburn.

00:19:08.433 --> 00:19:08.993
Oh, in Blackburn.

00:19:09.013 --> 00:19:10.455
That's where I'm from, Blackburn.

00:19:10.816 --> 00:19:12.156
It was in Rishton.

00:19:12.176 --> 00:19:12.837
Do you know Rishton?

00:19:13.137 --> 00:19:13.357
Yeah.

00:19:13.538 --> 00:19:23.346
Yeah, this guy that I knew who was actually an extremely good harmonica player and very good sax player had a little home recording set up.

00:19:23.386 --> 00:19:30.295
The only trouble with that, he had a crazy neighbour who used to stand in her bath and hammer on the wall when we were recording.

00:19:30.815 --> 00:19:33.638
Which disrupted things a wee bit.

00:19:33.979 --> 00:19:42.528
And then you've got, you know, sticking a little well on the traditional side, you've got an album on Bandcamp playing traditional harmonic with some great tunes on there, a little Maggie.

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:00.000
.

00:19:59.074 --> 00:20:03.557
sort of mixture of bluegrass and Irish stuff and Away From Strangers.

00:20:03.617 --> 00:20:06.000
So is that something you did more recently?

00:20:06.601 --> 00:20:18.590
I rediscovered that album quite recently back in March because I had recorded an album with Dick Farrelly in the August of, I think, 2011.

00:20:19.191 --> 00:20:21.834
Dick Farrelly, a fantastic guitar player.

00:20:21.894 --> 00:20:25.237
He was Van Morrison's guitar player in the 1980s.

00:20:25.616 --> 00:20:27.178
Just a fantastic player.

00:20:27.519 --> 00:20:33.229
Wonderful chops, you know, great skill He came over, flew over from Dublin, and we recorded that album.

00:20:33.509 --> 00:20:37.298
And at the same time, I also recorded an album with the House Devils.

00:20:37.759 --> 00:20:40.003
And they were, if you like, proper albums.

00:20:40.045 --> 00:20:45.857
They were properly released on labels, proper CDs in cases with information.

00:20:46.241 --> 00:20:55.789
In between doing those two things, I also recorded an album called Traditional Harmonica, which was more of the stuff that I wanted to do that was harmonica-focused.

00:20:56.029 --> 00:21:01.996
It kind of fell by the wayside because we invested all the money in the Blues album and the House Devils album.

00:21:02.296 --> 00:21:04.057
It never got properly released.

00:21:04.417 --> 00:21:13.685
So when I came across it again in a box in March, a friend of mine extracted the WAVs, as they're called, from the CD.

00:21:14.185 --> 00:21:19.645
I put it up on Bandcamp and it's been quite well received, which is very heartwarming.

00:21:19.874 --> 00:21:21.355
Yeah, there's some good stuff on there.

00:21:21.635 --> 00:21:22.596
I've enjoyed listening to those.

00:21:22.615 --> 00:21:24.857
Yeah, I think that's a good produced album, yeah.

00:21:24.877 --> 00:21:29.602
You're playing a ceilidh band sometimes as well, do you, as part of your repertoire to get some gigs?

00:21:29.923 --> 00:21:40.852
Yeah, there's a steady market for ceilidhs, usually for weddings, occasionally for birthdays, and I quite enjoy doing them.

00:21:41.051 --> 00:21:48.239
To be honest, as gigs go, they're quite easy because we have a caller who explains how the dance progresses.

00:21:48.679 --> 00:21:59.410
So they spend 10 minutes explaining the dance and then we play for five minutes and then they spend ten minutes explaining the next dance so it's quite a laid back affair really

00:21:59.911 --> 00:22:21.693
It's a guilty secret of mine Matt in recent years I've quite got into going to a ceilidh because first of all you hear some live music which is great and I like the tradition of music and they actually explain as a gentleman actually how to do the dance which you know as a man I find quite useful because otherwise I've got no idea like most men I guess so well, yeah, I quite like the Cayley these days.

00:22:21.773 --> 00:22:26.397
And do you play, you know, harmonica as part of that as well, some flute and whistle and other things?

00:22:26.898 --> 00:22:37.868
Yeah, I always try and shoehorn a bit of harmonica in there, play some jigs, usually jigs, to be honest, in the Cayley setup, and obviously mainly on the flute and a little bit on the pipes.

00:22:46.696 --> 00:22:48.157
Now we're fine.

00:22:49.826 --> 00:22:54.230
I haven't been to a ceilidh with harmonica yet, I'd like to hear that.

00:22:54.290 --> 00:22:56.212
But yeah, the ceilidhs are great.

00:22:56.272 --> 00:22:59.855
Yeah, a good place for musicians to play as well, like you say, getting a nice lot of rest.

00:23:00.477 --> 00:23:13.470
Yeah, it also keeps your chops up on playing the tunes because some of the dances you do have to play perhaps for, say, up to 10 minutes, maybe even more.

00:23:13.971 --> 00:23:16.894
So it does get your muscles into it.

00:23:17.089 --> 00:23:21.255
Great, yeah, so as you say, you play with the House Devils, and this is a good album.

00:23:21.315 --> 00:23:24.898
And then the album with Dick Farrelly is the Keep It Clean album, yeah?

00:23:25.299 --> 00:23:25.539
Yes.

00:23:25.900 --> 00:23:28.784
Yeah, so on there you've got a few jazz tracks.

00:23:28.844 --> 00:23:30.005
You've got Bags Groove.

00:23:36.573 --> 00:23:44.701
Bags Groove

00:23:45.250 --> 00:23:48.394
Yes, yes they

00:23:48.516 --> 00:23:49.463
are.

00:23:50.561 --> 00:23:56.267
So what about your approach to playing jazz on the diatonic or the chromatic at all if you play it on that

00:23:56.527 --> 00:23:56.727
too?

00:23:56.787 --> 00:24:08.356
On the diatonic it's a case of being a little bit circumspect and trying not to get carried away for me personally and just trying to hold on for dear life sometimes.

00:24:08.758 --> 00:24:16.684
With the chromatic obviously there's a little more flexibility but I would not call myself a jazz player.

00:24:16.924 --> 00:24:21.874
I love it, I love to listen to it and I'll have go at it from time to time.

00:24:22.178 --> 00:24:28.044
But yeah, a lot of respect for people like Olivia Aker, Oreo and Tootsie Lemons and people like that.

00:24:28.724 --> 00:24:33.951
Hermijn Douwelu from the Netherlands, you know, fantastic jazz players, proper jazz players.

00:24:34.330 --> 00:24:43.500
But I think, you know, what you do with those two songs, though, is a good example for people who kind of want to dip their toe into jazz and you can kind of blues it up a little bit on the diatonic, can't you?

00:24:43.582 --> 00:24:48.666
And it works quite well on the diatonic, doesn't it, to do some reasonably lightweight jazz like that.

00:24:49.167 --> 00:24:50.970
It's a good idea, I think, for some variety.

00:24:51.490 --> 00:24:58.864
Yeah, but I mean, unless you're an overblower and can play chromatically on the diatonic, it's always going to be a wee bit limited.

00:24:59.204 --> 00:25:02.530
So you have to try and sort of keep your powder dry.

00:25:02.550 --> 00:25:06.558
Yeah, just try and maybe think a little more.

00:25:06.578 --> 00:25:09.904
I wouldn't say less spontaneous, but a little more...

00:25:10.369 --> 00:25:12.332
careful tread a little carefully I think

00:25:12.632 --> 00:25:29.567
I mean one thing you certainly get in jazz tunes more than standard blues songs generally is you get a melody yeah so you know you kind of get a melody to play don't you as you do on those two songs that we mentioned so is that something you know you spend the time learning the jazz melodies and that's you know the difference with the blues songs

00:25:29.866 --> 00:25:45.080
to be honest with those two he just turned around in the studio and said I'm going to play this one play along play along with it I'd obviously heard C jam blues before and I think I think I'd heard Baggs Groove before as well, but I'd never played them before.

00:25:45.401 --> 00:25:51.807
But he was, again, such a competent guitarist, it wasn't too much of an ordeal just to play around it.

00:25:52.068 --> 00:25:55.731
And there's a song on there, If It's Love, with a jaw harp on.

00:25:55.813 --> 00:25:57.153
Is that you playing the jaw harp on

00:25:57.493 --> 00:25:57.594
there?

00:25:57.614 --> 00:26:00.758
Yes, I do own one, and I do bring it out from time to time.

00:26:06.203 --> 00:26:10.288
MUSIC PLAYS

00:26:10.288 --> 00:26:20.093
I've got one recently actually, but I haven't played it too much.

00:26:20.173 --> 00:26:24.143
I'm a bit put off by the fact that you have to put it against your teeth and it vibrates against your teeth.

00:26:24.182 --> 00:26:24.924
That's right, isn't it?

00:26:25.602 --> 00:26:27.604
Not if you're doing it properly.

00:26:27.663 --> 00:26:28.845
It's not supposed to hit your teeth.

00:26:29.325 --> 00:26:29.484
No.

00:26:30.425 --> 00:26:34.589
When I first started to try and play it, it hurt a lot.

00:26:35.069 --> 00:26:37.031
I kept whacking it into my teeth.

00:26:37.372 --> 00:26:48.541
So, yeah, you're just going to have to very gently rest your teeth on the metal strips, leaving a little gap for the tongue to vibrate, the metal tongue to vibrate.

00:26:48.582 --> 00:26:49.303
Yeah, I know.

00:26:49.343 --> 00:26:51.044
So you do put your teeth on it, though, don't you?

00:26:51.084 --> 00:26:53.266
That's what I meant, yeah.

00:26:53.286 --> 00:26:55.567
I find that quite uncomfortable because it kind of vibrates again.

00:26:55.567 --> 00:26:59.471
it's a very strange feeling but I'll have to have another go with it.

00:26:59.711 --> 00:27:24.318
Yeah if you ever get the chance and this isn't me trying to make you suffer listen to some of the Mongolian jaw harp players because they're incredible because they set up a complicated rhythm and then they do like overtones a bit like that Mongolian overtone singing and you know sometimes it's really percussive and then sometimes it's really melodic and the range of tones that they can achieve with it are just incredible.

00:27:24.739 --> 00:27:28.845
You did some work with Paolo Fucci, who's an Italian blues player.

00:27:29.045 --> 00:27:30.906
You released the album Kicking Up The Dust.

00:27:50.734 --> 00:27:52.758
Yeah, we did that in...

00:27:53.377 --> 00:27:54.798
How long did it take us to record that?

00:27:55.038 --> 00:27:55.559
Six hours.

00:27:55.940 --> 00:27:59.202
We basically played the live set in the studio and released it.

00:27:59.303 --> 00:28:00.003
It's mainly covers.

00:28:00.304 --> 00:28:01.964
In fact, it's 99% covers.

00:28:01.984 --> 00:28:03.186
I think there's one original on there.

00:28:03.527 --> 00:28:09.051
It captured quite well the sound of the live set, which is kind of what we wanted.

00:28:09.311 --> 00:28:10.192
And it did quite well.

00:28:10.732 --> 00:28:11.794
It was quite well received.

00:28:12.193 --> 00:28:13.695
I think that was 2016.

00:28:14.615 --> 00:28:15.277
Are

00:28:15.317 --> 00:28:16.678
you still playing with Paolo now?

00:28:16.998 --> 00:28:19.401
No, not played with Paolo for a few years now.

00:28:19.661 --> 00:28:24.986
These days, I generally play with a guitarist who's based in Sheffield called Alex

00:28:25.006 --> 00:28:34.878
Haynes.

00:28:35.319 --> 00:28:42.470
And I

00:28:43.951 --> 00:28:51.741
also play with another guitarist and singer called Tom Atta.

00:28:52.193 --> 00:29:12.328
great yeah and so you're mainly doing duo work with those guys

00:29:12.865 --> 00:29:13.866
Predominantly, yes.

00:29:14.347 --> 00:29:20.096
And mainly, you know, in terms of expense for the venues.

00:29:20.596 --> 00:29:24.340
A lot of the venues can only afford to pay for a duo.

00:29:24.662 --> 00:29:28.366
But occasionally, if we're lucky, we'll get to take a rhythm section out.

00:29:28.866 --> 00:29:34.755
I do occasionally put on blues events at a venue called The Met in Bury near Manchester.

00:29:35.195 --> 00:29:39.121
And that's a fantastic venue with a great stage and a wonderful PA.

00:29:39.501 --> 00:29:44.317
And there we've managed to do, you know, four, five, six-piece gigs.

00:29:44.817 --> 00:29:50.349
Next year, we're doing Scarborough Blues Festival with Tom with a full band.

00:29:50.750 --> 00:29:53.416
And I think that's April next year.

00:29:53.656 --> 00:29:57.365
But unfortunately, I think it just comes down to the bottom line.

00:29:57.384 --> 00:29:59.549
Duos are cheaper.

00:29:59.713 --> 00:30:03.837
Yeah, I mean, at least they, you know, you get the nice space for the harmonica and the duet, don't you?

00:30:03.857 --> 00:30:09.241
You're not competing too much with the volume, although it's nice to play some loud electric amplified harmonica too.

00:30:09.261 --> 00:30:10.143
It's kind of nice not to.

00:30:10.683 --> 00:30:11.483
So yeah, so great.

00:30:11.503 --> 00:30:16.489
So yeah, you did the album with Paolo and then you did an album 2018, which I really enjoy.

00:30:16.509 --> 00:30:19.151
You know, really well produced one, I think, The Sea of Blues.

00:30:19.191 --> 00:30:21.192
Paolo's playing on that album, I think, isn't he?

00:30:21.272 --> 00:30:21.772
He is, yeah.

00:30:21.853 --> 00:30:24.756
He played guitar on that and also Tom.

00:30:25.175 --> 00:30:27.137
Tom had to play guitar on some of the tracks.

00:30:27.597 --> 00:30:29.420
In fact, I even played guitar on one of them.

00:30:29.599 --> 00:30:29.680
Yeah.

00:30:29.680 --> 00:30:31.561
Yeah, the one with three chords.

00:30:31.821 --> 00:30:44.615
But yeah, so it was a mixture, if you like, of band tracks, all those tracks there with rhythm section, a great bass player from Barbados who's lived in Manchester since the late 60s called Bowley.

00:30:44.976 --> 00:30:48.859
Was he the inspiration for doing the Dubbed and Burning song then?

00:30:49.260 --> 00:30:54.165
And also the Modest Man, because you kind of got the two sort of reggae vibes, haven't you?

00:30:54.346 --> 00:31:35.266
Well, I've always loved ska and reggae as well as blues there isn't a massive amount of harmonica in blues and reggae historically although toots hibbert was quite a good harmonica player from toots and the maytals i came up with those two songs uh in fact dubbed and burning is a sort of reggae version of the old gospel song keep your lamp trimmed and burning done by uh mississippi fred mcdowell and uh blind willie johnson for instance When I thought about doing those songs, I knew that I would have Bo there and Bo would make it sound correct because he's a fantastic bass player.

00:31:35.666 --> 00:31:39.733
He actually played with Desmond Decker when he first came over to the UK.

00:31:40.015 --> 00:31:40.655
He was in the band.

00:32:01.538 --> 00:32:03.867
Dubbed and Burning is a great track, I think.

00:32:03.929 --> 00:32:04.351
It works well.

00:32:04.632 --> 00:32:06.179
Are you playing chromatic on that one?

00:32:06.601 --> 00:32:07.545
I am, yes.

00:32:07.565 --> 00:32:09.534
A 16-hole chromatic on that one.

00:32:09.922 --> 00:32:19.029
yeah so what made you choose chromatic for that because you did so traditionally you know you might go for a more rhythmic approach from the diatonic so i was interested to think yeah it's definitely yeah it's chromatic on here yeah

00:32:19.529 --> 00:33:36.367
it was partly because it's it's four octaves so you got four octaves to play with and also because it's in a minor key um we did it in e flat minor i could play with the sliding if you're playing in that way the water blues player would call third position using a using a minor scale or the dorian mode if you're going to be pedantic one it's quite straightforward but also you can just by releasing the slide and then replacing it you get a little semitone dip which is quite effective and also you can use the octaves so you've got those different textural things you've got the single note playing across four octaves so from quite low and throaty to quite high and then you've got the potential to use the octaves and also the glissandi and things like that I just thought it kind of suited the track a bit better than doing it on the diatonic although I have for instance on the Kicking Up The Dust album we covered a Derek Morgan song from Jamaica from the 60s which is in essence a 12 bar blues song but it was recorded on for Trojan Records with Lee Scott Perry who's a famous producer so it's kind of a basically a scar 12 bar blues that lent itself to the diatonic

00:33:36.709 --> 00:33:44.196
so yeah you're chromatic playing traditional songs on chromatic as well you're you say as well as are you mostly playing sort of third position blues stuff on there?

00:33:44.436 --> 00:33:51.243
If it's in a blues contest most of the time I am playing in third position though occasionally I will play in other keys in other ways.

00:33:51.545 --> 00:34:13.793
What I have played and recorded quite a few reels and jigs and such like and polkas on the harmonica because I'll say on the chromatic harmonica because you can do things like go from on a G chromatic for instance go from D minor to E minor to A minor key changes that will be more difficult on a diatonic

00:34:14.193 --> 00:34:20.206
yeah great and you're able to you know to get around those tunes okay and the chromatic obviously a bit more tricky I'm dealing with the slide

00:34:20.567 --> 00:34:28.012
but on the plus side with the chromatic you've got the slide there that can provide the triplets Because with that kind of music, it's full of triplets.

00:34:28.574 --> 00:34:30.096
There's a variety of ways of doing them.

00:34:30.516 --> 00:34:33.862
On a diatonic, you can use a U-block technique.

00:34:34.282 --> 00:34:36.786
You can wobble your chin or you can move your head.

00:34:37.085 --> 00:34:44.135
But on the chromatic, you've got another option where you can basically tap the button extremely quickly and it gives you that triplet.

00:34:44.777 --> 00:34:48.742
Another song I really like on that album, Sea of Blues, is the Rivers of Jordan.

00:34:53.730 --> 00:34:53.949
MUSIC PLAYS

00:35:07.905 --> 00:35:17.942
That, well, I shamelessly thieved it from Jay Bird Coleman, who, I don't know if you've come across Jay Bird Coleman, but his story is quite an interesting one.

00:35:18.322 --> 00:35:24.052
I think it's got some parallels with mine because he died in abject poverty, and I think I'm going to go the same way.

00:35:24.492 --> 00:35:27.798
But he was actually a real tour de force.

00:35:27.958 --> 00:35:32.286
He would play gigs just on his own with a harmonica.

00:35:32.385 --> 00:36:05.420
kind of accompanies vocals with this harmonica not singing and playing simultaneously but in such a way as to create a full sound and he's just a fantastic player great tone apparently for a time he was so popular in his local area that he was managed by the Ku Klux Klan so it's very hard to get your head around that idea in the 1930s and in the deep south if you've not come across Jay Bird Coleman I would recommend digging out his stuff because he is amazing and um The Rivers of Jordan is a straight lift from his version.

00:36:15.585 --> 00:36:19.409
Another

00:36:19.449 --> 00:36:30.858
song on there you've got is a song called Playing With Myself Boogie, which is you playing multiple harmonicas, which is something that you've got into, I think, recently, haven't you?

00:36:30.958 --> 00:36:39.226
You've released another song called Many Harps, and you've done a few, I think, Box Room Blues as well as another one where you record multiple harmonicas onto tracks.

00:36:39.266 --> 00:36:40.387
So what about that?

00:36:40.628 --> 00:36:42.909
Yeah, I like the idea of it.

00:36:43.190 --> 00:36:52.556
My first proper attempt at it was that tongue playing with myself boogie.

00:37:00.961 --> 00:37:06.726
I've got a chord harmonica, not the great big chord harmonicas that cost as much as a car.

00:37:07.007 --> 00:37:10.329
I've got a little one that plays six chords.

00:37:10.871 --> 00:37:15.514
I had to choose a key that I could use the chords on, so I ended up doing it in the key of G.

00:37:15.914 --> 00:37:18.998
I laid down a rhythm track using those chords.

00:37:19.637 --> 00:37:22.661
I don't know if you've ever tried to play a chord harmonica.

00:37:22.900 --> 00:37:31.708
The little ones have a bass note and then a four-note chord, so you can kind of go, you know, note, chord, chord, note, chord.

00:37:31.809 --> 00:37:35.972
So, and they've got some seventh chords on, which is good for blues.

00:37:36.434 --> 00:38:03.583
So, and it basically recorded eight 12-bars on the chord harmonica, and then recorded a bass line on the bass harmonica, and then recorded some parts on diatonics, playing a kind of, what you might call a boogie rhythm, you know, sort of dum-dum-dum-dum-dum-dum-dum, and then overdubbed a couple of solos in first position, and a couple of solos in second position, just to give a different flavour.

00:38:04.003 --> 00:38:07.286
And these are songs entirely just harmonica, no other instruments?

00:38:07.686 --> 00:38:09.128
Yeah, just harmonica, nothing else.

00:38:09.708 --> 00:38:23.443
Yeah, so you've done a few of these now, as I say, mentioned a few though, I mean, it's great, you know, as a harmonica player to be able to hear them, like you say, you can hear you're changing positions, you've got the chords in there, and you know, any more plans to produce any of these multi-harmonica songs?

00:38:23.744 --> 00:38:33.916
Yeah, until a petition is taken up, or you know, that the police come round, I will probably continue you to explore this strange avenue.

00:38:34.356 --> 00:38:40.927
One harmonica that I own that I've never managed to actually record with or use in anger is a chromatica.

00:38:41.088 --> 00:38:42.349
They're almost two feet long.

00:38:42.791 --> 00:38:45.454
They have just a chromatic run of notes.

00:38:46.036 --> 00:38:54.088
So it just goes C, C sharp, D, E flat, E, F, F sharp, et cetera, and so on and so on over, I think it's four octaves.

00:38:54.748 --> 00:38:59.393
And There are two holes and it plays the same note, blow and draw.

00:38:59.733 --> 00:39:02.175
So you can play endless glissandi.

00:39:02.496 --> 00:39:07.701
The only use I could think of it would be if you wanted to simulate a rainstorm.

00:39:07.721 --> 00:39:11.443
I keep meaning to try and use it.

00:39:11.884 --> 00:39:13.065
One day, maybe I will.

00:39:13.306 --> 00:39:15.887
But it's a weird and wonderful thing.

00:39:15.907 --> 00:39:15.927
I

00:39:16.427 --> 00:39:17.608
don't own one of those.

00:39:17.688 --> 00:39:19.550
I own most types of harmonica, but not one of those.

00:39:19.771 --> 00:39:33.083
So you've also, you know, recently, I think probably through lockdown time, I'm guessing, you've released a few songs that you've recorded on your own, as well as these, you know, harmonica, multiple harmonica ones you've released a couple of recently, haven't you?

00:39:33.103 --> 00:39:36.266
You've released Better Off Alone, which is an original song by you.

00:39:36.306 --> 00:39:38.387
I think you're playing, singing and playing guitar on there as well.

00:39:38.748 --> 00:39:39.068
Yeah.

00:39:39.429 --> 00:39:42.972
Yeah, so again, and multiple harmonicas and Bye and Bye.

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:00.000
...

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:00.000
...

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:00.000
...

00:39:56.961 --> 00:39:58.512
So you're recording these at home.

00:39:58.532 --> 00:40:00.202
You've got sort of a home setup.

00:40:00.222 --> 00:40:01.532
You've been doing these over the last year.

00:40:01.985 --> 00:40:06.449
Yeah, just a very basic, probably obsolete technology now.

00:40:06.590 --> 00:40:10.532
But it's a little machine called a BOSS BR800.

00:40:10.873 --> 00:40:15.898
It's a digital recording device with four, five inputs on it.

00:40:16.237 --> 00:40:19.922
You can apparently get 24 virtual tracks on it.

00:40:20.141 --> 00:40:21.722
I haven't figured out how to do that yet.

00:40:21.882 --> 00:40:24.045
So everything I record is basically six tracks.

00:40:24.865 --> 00:40:29.250
If I can use it, then basically anybody with a portable thumbs could use it.

00:40:29.789 --> 00:40:48.429
So I've got a large diaphragm micro relatively cheap one and this little recording machine so you record each track and then I use a very simple free program called Audacity to mix it slightly and EQ and such like and edit it and away you go.

00:40:48.849 --> 00:41:06.648
Yeah brilliant I think there's a lot of interest in that these days isn't there again maybe over the last year or so where people have got really interested in doing home recording and so yeah interesting that you're using a kind of a machine like that rather than a computer to do it then you You've not attempted, well, apart from Audacity, of course, but you're recording into this box, as you say.

00:41:07.028 --> 00:41:15.639
Yeah, and that's what communicates with the laptop for editing purposes, but I am not very computer literate.

00:41:15.878 --> 00:41:18.061
It's a miracle that I'm talking to you now, to be honest.

00:41:18.402 --> 00:41:28.632
I didn't go down the Cubase Logic Pro Tools route because I know that it would just frustrate me and I wouldn't be able to understand it fully.

00:41:28.813 --> 00:41:39.710
Great to hear that, you know, you say you can record in that way and, yeah, and get some good stuff out yeah so great and um but yeah basically you say you're just using one large diaphragm microphone you're nothing else microphone wise

00:41:40.192 --> 00:42:02.420
for recording uh just that large diaphragm mic uh not even i mean i've got obviously some sm58s but i don't bother using those uh it it's it's been educational in a way in terms of mic placement Just the distances needed to successfully record vocals and acoustic harmonica and then amplified harmonica.

00:42:02.702 --> 00:42:10.411
It's getting that distance right so you're getting the quality of the sound, but you're not obviously overloading it and distorting.

00:42:10.831 --> 00:42:12.994
Or on the other side of the coin, it's not too quiet.

00:42:13.014 --> 00:42:15.197
So it's been interesting.

00:42:15.362 --> 00:42:19.208
Have you been picking up the amplified harmonica with the large diaphragm mic as well?

00:42:19.548 --> 00:42:20.070
I have, yeah.

00:42:20.351 --> 00:42:23.056
Making use of the smallest room in the house.

00:42:23.637 --> 00:42:25.380
Very undignified for the amp.

00:42:25.619 --> 00:42:26.681
It sits on the toilet.

00:42:27.043 --> 00:42:31.530
And the microphone is set up by the bathroom door.

00:42:31.911 --> 00:42:33.153
And it seems to work.

00:42:33.474 --> 00:42:35.215
I saw that picture on Facebook, yeah.

00:42:35.335 --> 00:42:42.282
So is that for the acoustics, the reverb in the bathroom, or you just like putting your amp in the toilet?

00:42:42.661 --> 00:42:43.702
Yeah, yeah.

00:42:43.722 --> 00:42:45.644
That's probably one good reason.

00:42:45.724 --> 00:42:48.927
It's the most straightforward way for me to do it, really, in the house.

00:42:49.867 --> 00:42:54.512
Just stick it on the toilet, set the microphone by the door, and away you go.

00:42:55.012 --> 00:42:56.673
You've done really well getting out some tracks.

00:42:56.693 --> 00:43:00.117
You've been obviously very active over the last year or so with getting these out.

00:43:00.177 --> 00:43:06.813
And getting some tracks down, it's obviously been important to you to some tracks down you know over the years and get some albums out yeah

00:43:07.170 --> 00:43:08.550
Yeah, definitely.

00:43:09.351 --> 00:43:14.717
It's not just purely for the purposes of expressing my angst to the world.

00:43:14.876 --> 00:43:21.561
You need to record so people can hear you and know who you are and hopefully come and see you play somewhere.

00:43:22.003 --> 00:43:33.413
Yeah, and as well as that, I think, you know, going through this sort of pain of recording, you know, you think you can play something until you record it and listen back to it, yeah, and you go, I've got to play that a hundred times before, in some cases, you know.

00:43:33.652 --> 00:43:36.755
Yeah, I save most of my bad language for the studio.

00:43:37.135 --> 00:43:38.338
to be honest.

00:43:38.418 --> 00:43:42.409
The amount and volume of swearing is just unreal.

00:43:43.150 --> 00:43:50.289
You think you have something in your head, okay, I'll play this part over this particular piece of the tune, and by take 25...

00:43:50.690 --> 00:43:52.032
You're thinking, I'm never going to get this.

00:43:52.413 --> 00:43:55.739
It never seems to come out the way it does in your imagination.

00:43:56.380 --> 00:43:56.579
Yeah.

00:43:57.001 --> 00:44:01.387
But I think once you do record something and you go through that pain, then you can really play it.

00:44:01.449 --> 00:44:03.150
I think that's a really good way to learn, isn't

00:44:03.170 --> 00:44:03.592
it?

00:44:03.612 --> 00:44:04.373
Yeah, it is.

00:44:04.554 --> 00:44:04.773
It is.

00:44:05.275 --> 00:44:07.358
I also forget as well, unfortunately.

00:44:07.599 --> 00:44:11.385
I'll do something and it will work, in my opinion.

00:44:11.686 --> 00:44:16.094
And then I'll listen to it a few months later and think, I have no idea how I did that.

00:44:16.418 --> 00:44:20.400
And you've got a lot of airplay on radio, haven't you, with your tracks?

00:44:20.481 --> 00:44:26.567
You seem to have got on all sorts of radio stations all around the world with your tracks on sort of various blues shows and things.

00:44:26.827 --> 00:44:30.210
Yeah, it's been very gratifying and I'm very grateful.

00:44:31.530 --> 00:44:35.253
I get played nearly every week in Brazil, which astounds me.

00:44:35.775 --> 00:44:37.295
Tasmania, where was that?

00:44:37.315 --> 00:44:39.217
I was on the radio in Uruguay this week.

00:44:39.518 --> 00:44:40.278
North America.

00:44:40.679 --> 00:44:45.222
But I've been played in all sorts of weird and wonderful places, which is lovely.

00:44:45.603 --> 00:44:47.184
So how do you get on radio shows?

00:44:47.244 --> 00:44:48.626
Is it something you push out yourself?

00:44:49.007 --> 00:45:20.300
Yeah, well I can't afford to pay somebody to do it for me so yeah, it's a case of research, looking around on the internet usually for blues DJs or blues radio shows and there are also things like, there's a company called Airplay Direct which is an American company, where you upload tracks and then you can send what they call a digital press kit out to radio stations DJs and they can download the tracks from the site.

00:45:20.621 --> 00:45:23.282
That's been quite useful for a lot of the American airplay.

00:45:23.623 --> 00:45:25.885
In this country it's quite well organised.

00:45:25.945 --> 00:45:38.579
There is a sort of, I forget the term now, a sort of confederation of British blues DJs and you can contact them all in one fell swoop by sending an email to their main email address.

00:45:39.159 --> 00:45:39.740
Fantastic.

00:45:40.181 --> 00:45:41.382
And get a bit of exposure.

00:45:41.402 --> 00:45:44.666
Do you even get paid for these radio appearances?

00:45:44.907 --> 00:45:50.672
It's kind of a slight I was on Radio 2 last July.

00:45:51.293 --> 00:45:57.539
Keris Matthews was kind enough to play that tune, Playing With Myself Boogie, on Radio 2.

00:45:57.820 --> 00:46:01.623
And obviously a sizable royalty accrues from that.

00:46:01.824 --> 00:46:07.791
But the royalties from internet radio and very small stations is obviously very small.

00:46:08.070 --> 00:46:11.014
But every little helps, you know, and I'm always grateful.

00:46:11.809 --> 00:46:12.590
Yeah, no, great.

00:46:12.670 --> 00:46:13.931
Great to well done for getting out there.

00:46:13.992 --> 00:46:16.134
And you played other things as well.

00:46:16.153 --> 00:46:19.916
I think you've had your music on a Sky show called Intergalactic.

00:46:20.097 --> 00:46:34.289
Just before the first lockdown in 2020, I was asked with Alex Haynes, the guitarist I work with from Sheffield, to compose two tunes for two scenes in this Sky sci-fi series called Intergalactic.

00:46:34.489 --> 00:46:36.190
So we wrote the tunes.

00:46:36.550 --> 00:46:37.472
The producers liked them.

00:46:37.731 --> 00:46:41.775
So we went to the woods in Orderly Edge, which is near Manchester, in the middle of Manchester.

00:46:41.775 --> 00:47:14.170
march and sat there for 17 hours in the freezing cold playing about four seconds of each tune over and over and over again because i don't know if you've ever done any filming but they sort of say action then they say cut about four seconds later move the cameras do it all again move the cameras do it all again add infinitum until you lose the will to live and so but we did it anyway but i had a quick scan quick skim through the uh the series on uh on the television the other week and I couldn't see our scene.

00:47:14.471 --> 00:47:17.514
So I suspect that they may have cut the scene.

00:47:17.954 --> 00:47:18.295
Oh dear.

00:47:18.755 --> 00:47:21.297
Don't say oh dear because they paid us quite handsomely for doing it.

00:47:21.719 --> 00:47:27.063
But I was kind of on 8 out of 10 Catsills Countdown last year as well.

00:47:27.485 --> 00:47:36.273
They called me in to play the clock theme on the harmonica because it's filmed in Salford in Manchester at the Media City.

00:47:36.554 --> 00:47:39.637
So they wanted a bluesy version of the clock theme.

00:47:40.018 --> 00:47:41.679
You know...

00:47:41.679 --> 00:47:44.358
It's only 30 seconds of music, so I turned up.

00:47:44.673 --> 00:47:48.938
They pressed record in the studio, and I did it.

00:47:49.237 --> 00:47:51.659
And then Jimmy Carr came on and mimed to it.

00:47:52.019 --> 00:47:53.501
So I'm not actually on.

00:47:54.021 --> 00:48:00.166
You don't see me, but it was me playing while he mimed on a tremolo harmonica.

00:48:01.128 --> 00:48:05.831
Purists will be there screaming at the television screen, you know, it's the wrong harmonica.

00:48:06.952 --> 00:48:19.425
It's like I went to the cinema to see a film about Charles Darwin once years ago, and it is a true story that Charles Darwin gave a harmonica harmonica to an orangutan in London Zoo to see what its reaction would be to the sound.

00:48:19.905 --> 00:48:25.291
But in the film, he gives it a chromatic harmonica and they weren't invented until the next century.

00:48:25.672 --> 00:48:29.675
So I just turned to the person I was with and said, that's it, the film's ruined for me now.

00:48:29.856 --> 00:48:31.217
It's the wrong harmonica.

00:48:31.637 --> 00:48:37.443
Yeah, so a question I ask each time is if you had 10 minutes to practice, what would you spend those 10 minutes doing?

00:48:37.945 --> 00:49:10.119
If I had 10 minutes, I would work on bends for a fair bit because it's like a muscle that needs to be constantly flexed the control of the bends and doing bends as quietly as possible but successfully so I'd spend a bit of time on a diatonic on all three just working on those bends I'd probably do a little bit of tongue blocking work just to again keep the wheels oiled the rhythmic work and the placement of the octaves probably for like the last couple of minutes I'd just go nuts and just play around mess around have some fun

00:49:10.460 --> 00:49:15.144
Okay so we'll get on to talking about gear now so you're a sidle and door sir

00:49:15.505 --> 00:49:16.246
yes i am

00:49:16.766 --> 00:49:18.268
which uh which ones do you like of those

00:49:18.547 --> 00:49:47.179
for blues i predominantly use the 1847 classics with the wooden comb i've got i've got more than any sane human really needs but i've got one in every key and i've got low tunings i like them i like them they're durable reliable the intonation is good the tone is good i like the feel of them some some people may find them slightly perhaps a bit too chunky compared to the dimensions of say an old-fashioned marine band, which are slightly smaller.

00:49:47.539 --> 00:49:52.965
For me, they feel comfortable and they do what I need them to do when I need them to do it.

00:49:53.344 --> 00:49:54.766
I do have a set of lightnings.

00:49:54.907 --> 00:49:55.527
I do like them.

00:49:55.867 --> 00:49:57.449
I keep them for best, as it were.

00:49:57.469 --> 00:50:00.813
Also, I've got one of the symphony chromatics.

00:50:00.934 --> 00:50:03.056
It's a lovely, lovely instrument.

00:50:03.295 --> 00:50:05.699
That's the one with the magnetic slide, isn't it?

00:50:05.958 --> 00:50:08.461
Yeah, and it comes in a heated case.

00:50:09.181 --> 00:50:20.554
When I first got it, I had a gig at Manchester Jazz Festival playing in the Midland Hotel And we had a set to do, shall we say, midday, and another set at 3pm.

00:50:20.875 --> 00:50:25.701
So I did the first set, put the harmonica in its heated case, and forgot that I'd left it on.

00:50:26.001 --> 00:50:28.463
So when it came back three hours later, I could barely pick it up.

00:50:29.625 --> 00:50:30.326
It was read out.

00:50:30.507 --> 00:50:33.610
So if you do get one, don't forget to turn the damn thing off.

00:50:33.710 --> 00:50:35.572
But yeah, they're lovely.

00:50:36.072 --> 00:50:40.338
And I use the Saxony chromatics a lot for traditional music.

00:50:40.641 --> 00:50:42.789
usually in the key of G.

00:50:43.110 --> 00:50:52.041
For Irish music, a G chromatic and a G diatonic tend to be the most useful for playing the tunes on, especially if you want to play in a session.

00:51:08.481 --> 00:51:13.266
Yeah, I find, obviously, so G and D are the common keys, aren't they, for those songs.

00:51:13.786 --> 00:51:17.028
But I find the Gs are very low, though, so they're hard to cut through.

00:51:17.108 --> 00:51:19.331
So how do you overcome that on the lower Gs?

00:51:19.652 --> 00:51:22.173
I don't really have a problem cutting through with them, really.

00:51:22.574 --> 00:51:29.260
I think mainly because once you start playing the harmonica in the session, most people just put their instruments down and stare at you.

00:51:29.900 --> 00:51:38.047
But yeah, I think the cutting through business, it's a bit like, well, it's very, very much like the projection when you're singing, projecting a voice.

00:51:38.268 --> 00:51:46.936
It's just trying to introduce that little bit of diaphragm to push it out slightly without obviously using more air or blowing more violently.

00:51:47.217 --> 00:51:50.840
To be honest I've not struggled with cutting through.

00:51:50.880 --> 00:51:55.525
And when you're playing traditional songs with the diatonics what do you tend to use for those?

00:51:55.987 --> 00:52:42.971
Well obviously with Seidel you can get any tuning configuration you want so I ordered up a few Nobles in fact as you mentioned before with the Paddy Richter tuning so a G diatonic basically with three below tuned up to the note of E and I've also got a couple in D with that Paddy Richter tuning as well and I find the Nobles are great for the traditional stuff and also for bluegrass as well but one thing you'll find if you're playing bluegrass on the diatonic you'll need to do the bends in hole number two as well if you're playing Irish traditional music and a lot of the also Scottish traditional music you don't tend to need that bend in hole number two I don't know if this helps, but if you imagine the tin whistle, the bottom note on it is D and you don't go below that D.

00:52:43.291 --> 00:52:50.016
So you wouldn't need the bend in hole number two, but you do need the bend in hole number three or the note there because you need that note of E.

00:52:50.257 --> 00:52:52.539
But then two draw is a D.

00:52:52.800 --> 00:52:55.581
So you don't really often need to go below that.

00:52:55.822 --> 00:52:57.963
But if you play bluegrass, you do.

00:52:58.364 --> 00:53:03.969
It still makes it easier to use that tuning, but you do still have to do a bit of bending as well.

00:53:04.250 --> 00:53:06.992
Yeah, and you're mainly playing, what, first position on these tunes?

00:53:06.992 --> 00:53:07.893
Well,

00:53:08.094 --> 00:53:08.315
no.

00:53:09.478 --> 00:53:12.324
For instance, there's a set of tunes out there.

00:53:12.865 --> 00:53:14.028
It's on the House Devil's Album.

00:53:14.048 --> 00:53:15.652
It's on the SoundCloud page.

00:53:15.952 --> 00:53:17.496
I think it might be on Bandcamp as well.

00:53:17.737 --> 00:53:20.403
Called The Hearty Boys of Ballymote.

00:53:20.625 --> 00:53:21.507
That's the first tune.

00:53:35.521 --> 00:53:46.291
So it goes from a tune in G, so first position, if you like, to a tune in E minor, and then to a tune in A minor, which is technically third position, if you think about it in a blues way.

00:53:46.692 --> 00:53:51.396
So yeah, those tend to be the main keys on the G diatonic, obviously.

00:53:51.655 --> 00:54:02.626
G, E minor, A minor, occasional tunes in D that don't have a C sharp in them, and very rarely some tunes in some quite unusual keys.

00:54:02.905 --> 00:54:04.347
It just depends on how they were written.

00:54:04.646 --> 00:54:18.465
So for instance, the There's a tune you could play using the Phrygian mode, and it's technically in F sharp, but because of the way it was written, you can play it on a G diatonic.

00:54:18.885 --> 00:54:19.326
Yeah, great.

00:54:19.365 --> 00:54:25.873
Yeah, so obviously you're playing different positions in there, and the Paddy Richter's good for that, isn't it, with that three blow razor tone, as you say.

00:54:25.954 --> 00:54:28.697
So do you play any other tunings beside the Paddy Richter?

00:54:29.186 --> 00:54:29.588
I don't.

00:54:30.411 --> 00:54:36.141
I use standard Richtotune diatonics and the Paddy Richters, and that's it.

00:54:36.481 --> 00:54:39.043
and obviously chromatics, but you know how they're tuned.

00:54:39.364 --> 00:54:40.385
Do you do any overblows?

00:54:40.706 --> 00:54:40.846
No.

00:54:41.927 --> 00:54:43.628
On the embouchure-wise, what do you do?

00:54:43.807 --> 00:54:46.269
I flip between three techniques.

00:54:46.471 --> 00:54:51.054
I use a fair amount of lip pursing or puckering, as the Americans call it.

00:54:51.394 --> 00:55:00.543
I use quite a lot of tongue blocking, and I use quite a lot of U-blocking as well, especially if I'm playing the traditional stuff, because, again, you can do the triplets by moving the tongue.

00:55:01.443 --> 00:55:06.447
It's just my personal taste, but it makes it a little bit easier to achieve them at high speed

00:55:06.447 --> 00:55:08.610
Yeah, I've never really tried the U blocking then.

00:55:08.670 --> 00:55:10.233
Is that something you picked up later on?

00:55:10.893 --> 00:55:15.880
Yeah, I just tackled upon it before I had a name for it or I'd ever heard it discussed.

00:55:16.460 --> 00:55:24.690
But in essence, it's a process of sticking the tip of the tongue underneath the hole that you want to play and the sides of the tongue block off the holes that you don't need.

00:55:25.210 --> 00:55:28.034
And it's good for accuracy at speed.

00:55:28.215 --> 00:55:29.215
It's good for the triplets.

00:55:29.376 --> 00:55:32.260
And it's good for big jumps up and down the harmonica.

00:55:32.420 --> 00:55:33.942
We don't do too many of them normally.

00:55:34.402 --> 00:55:37.425
And equipment-wise, what amplifiers do you like to use?

00:55:37.706 --> 00:55:43.231
I've got a lovely little workhorse 5-watt valve amper with a 10-inch speaker.

00:55:43.291 --> 00:55:50.639
It's a VHT, and it's been modified for harmonica, so preamp valves have been changed, circuits have been altered slightly.

00:55:50.840 --> 00:55:54.284
All done by a fellow called Nigel, who lives in Rochdale near Manchester.

00:55:54.804 --> 00:56:03.434
His company's called Al Micco Magnets, and he modified this VHT, and I've had it for about 10 years now, and it's been...

00:56:03.777 --> 00:56:05.378
A fantastic little workhorse.

00:56:05.860 --> 00:56:07.081
Obviously great for duo gigs.

00:56:07.541 --> 00:56:10.423
It's got sufficient volume for that context.

00:56:11.043 --> 00:56:15.588
And I've even used it successfully with bands, you know, where it's been mic'd up.

00:56:15.867 --> 00:56:24.896
I've also got a custom boutique amp, if you like, also made by Nigel Briggs, which he calls a Mighty Mo.

00:56:25.177 --> 00:56:28.980
And that's an 8-inch speaker, also 5 watts, in the tweed cabinet.

00:56:29.260 --> 00:56:35.364
That's what I used on Playing With Myself Boogie and By& By and many harps.

00:56:35.385 --> 00:56:36.867
That's the amp I used on those.

00:56:37.146 --> 00:56:41.170
It's, I think, a cracking sound for amplified harmonica.

00:56:42.010 --> 00:56:51.298
I've got a Fender Bassman 59, a reissue, obviously, not an original one, which, to be honest, I mainly tend to use just for an extra bit of oomph.

00:56:51.820 --> 00:56:59.246
So what I will do is go into the VHT and then from the line-out socket of the VHT go into the Bassman.

00:56:59.907 --> 00:57:03.550
So, if you like, the VHT is acting like a preamp.

00:57:03.873 --> 00:57:39.023
for the bassman so by combining the two I get quite a lot of grit which you can alter it doesn't have to be really dirty but I get I move more air so there's more presence to the harmonica and if I am playing with a band then it does give a bit more body without feeding back too much I've got a Fender Champion 600 modified for harmonica that's something ridiculous like a 6 inch speaker I don't use it very often to be honest but I have one also got a A 1964 Fender Bandmaster, which is what they call a piggyback amp.

00:57:39.525 --> 00:57:44.492
So it's a 2x10 inch speaker cabinet with a head on top.

00:57:44.952 --> 00:57:46.173
It's 40 watts.

00:57:46.675 --> 00:57:49.639
It's 1964, so it's battered and bruised.

00:57:49.659 --> 00:57:50.880
It's got cigarette burns on it.

00:57:51.101 --> 00:57:54.385
But it sounds absolutely devastating.

00:57:54.726 --> 00:57:56.929
When playing with a band, you can just use that.

00:57:57.282 --> 00:58:00.184
Most cases, to be honest, I tend to use the same microphone.

00:58:00.485 --> 00:58:08.773
I've got quite a few bullet mics, but I've got a 1952 green bullet with a controlled reluctance element inside it.

00:58:09.155 --> 00:58:10.036
That's my go-to.

00:58:10.476 --> 00:58:12.077
And any effects, any effects pedals?

00:58:12.318 --> 00:58:13.639
No, I've got one pedal.

00:58:13.659 --> 00:58:16.362
It's a volume pedal, which is basically just on and off.

00:58:16.742 --> 00:58:23.210
Obviously, people have volume pots on the microphone, but I just find it a little bit easier using the foot.

00:58:23.554 --> 00:58:24.914
So what about the future plans?

00:58:24.954 --> 00:58:26.016
Things starting to open up for

00:58:26.056 --> 00:58:26.677
you now?

00:58:26.697 --> 00:58:26.936
Yeah.

00:58:27.878 --> 00:58:32.302
I've got quite a lot of gigs booked in between sort of next week and the end of August.

00:58:32.583 --> 00:58:35.545
At least one a week, sometimes two or three a week.

00:58:35.786 --> 00:58:39.971
So yeah, hopefully things will return to some kind of normality.

00:58:40.530 --> 00:58:42.713
So thanks so much for joining me, Matt Wartlake.

00:58:43.054 --> 00:58:43.134
It's

00:58:43.153 --> 00:58:43.713
been a pleasure.

00:58:43.875 --> 00:58:44.014
Thank

00:58:44.074 --> 00:58:44.175
you.

00:58:44.295 --> 00:58:45.335
Thanks so much, Matt.

00:58:45.916 --> 00:58:50.201
And over to you to show us how you do it with those many harps.