Sonny Terry retrospective with Paul Lamb, Joe Filisko and Adam Sikora

01:58 - Paul Lamb, Adam Sakori and Joe Filisko join me on the 125th episode to discuss Sonny Terry

02:19 - Paul Lamb was the guest on the very first episode, in April 2020, and he met Sonny Terry and did some playing with him

03:08 - Joe Filisko was on episode six of the podcast. Joe is a specialist in early styles of harmonica

04:07 - Adam Sakori is originally from Poland, growing up in Berlin

04:49 - Adam plays with the Juke Joint Smokers

05:05 - Sonny was born on October 24th, 1911. Although there is some doubt about the date

05:27 - Sonny was probably born in Greensboro, Georgia, although there are reports that he was born in North Carolina

06:04 - What is clear is that Sonny grew up on a farm

06:19 - Was reported to be from a family of ten children

06:43 - Sonny had two separate accidents as child, losing sight in one eye age 11, and sight in the second eye age 16

07:39 - Had partial sight in one eye

09:00 - Losing his sight meant he couldn’t work on the farm so turned to music

09:17 - May have first picked up his father’s harmonica age five, although reported that he started playing properly age eight

10:13 - His harmonica playing father probably gave him his first instruction on how to play

10:23 - Sonny didn’t hear blues until he was eighteen years old and learnt folk music, reels and breakdowns on the harmonica

11:25 - Started playing harmonica on the farm, and then out with string bands and medicine shows age 18 and may have learnt some harmonica from Little John

11:55 - Probably heard first blues either on the radio or musicians busking on the street

12:31 - Early influences included Deford Bailey and Henry Whitter

13:14 - Henry Whitter was the first to record the fox chase and Sonny’s version probably drew from it heavily

14:32 - Adam thinks Sonny made have also been influenced by John Lee Williamson, who released his first recording six months before Sonny

15:29 - John Webb was another player to release early recordings

15:50 - Sonny brought a different style of playing in the 1930s, playing in a Piedmont style

16:22 - Paul thinks Sonny’s harmonica heroes were Noah Lewis, Peg Leg Sam and Deford Bailey

17:04 - Sonny started performing with Blind Boy Fuller in the early 1930s, recording their first track together in 1937

18:25 - Sonny developed his whooping and hollering to be heard when he was busking on the street

18:49 - Sonny also worked with other blind blues musicians

19:11 - Blind Boy Fuller was a big recording star at the time Sonny joined him, which helped Sonny’s career

19:23 - Sonny had a big break when he was invited to play at the ‘From Spirituals To Swing’ concert at Carnegie Hall in 1938, bringing black music to a white audience

20:13 - Blind Boy Fuller was supposed to be playing in the 1938 Carnegie Hall concert, but was (possibly) arrested and Sonny took his place

21:15 - Robert Johnson was originally lined-up for the Carnegie Hall concert, but he couldn’t make it

21:41 - Two recordings of Sonny playing the From Spirituals To Swing concert are available

22:36 - Carnegie Hall concert allowed Sonny to break into the New York folk scene and Sonny lived in New York for the rest of his life

22:54 - Sonny played in the Piedmont style and Paul was influenced by Sonny playing this style, rather than Chicago blues players

24:22 - Partnership with Brownie McGhee started when they first met in 1939 and started playing as a duo in 1940

24:57 - Brownie had polio when young and as a result walked with a limp

25:57 - Sonny replaced Jordan Webb as the harmonica player with Brownie, although both Sonny and Jordan appeared on a small number of recordings together

26:24 - Sonny and Brownie became a permanent duo from 1942 and went on to play together for almost another forty years

26:58 - Sonny and Brownie became staples on the New York folk scene

27:42 - The New York folk scene included political protest, with Larry Adler also involved

28:26 - Sonny and Brownie did some protest songs as part of the Folk movement, with Brownie a good songwriter

29:15 - Recording of Lost John with with Woody Guthrie

29:40 - The Folk scene propelled Sonny and Brownie to fame

30:19 - Sonny and Brownie used to keep it quite loose and play off each other, not too rehearsed

31:08 - Sonny performed a song in a Broadway show, Finian’s Rainbow, from 1947-48, and the story of Sonny agreeing to play it the same way every night

32:34 - Sonny and Brownie performed in Cat On A Hot Tin Roof in the 1950s

32:44 - 1952 album: Sonny Terry Harmonica and Vocal solos

33:20 - Sonny Terry and His Washboard Band is one of Adam’s favourite albums and Adam plans to create a band with himself, washboard, single string bass and bones

34:18 - Toured around the world with Brownie

34:45 - 1958 album Sonny Terry and Brownie McGhee Sing which Paul studied deeply

36:16 - Sonny and Brownie also record an album with Big Bill Broonzy

36:58 - Sonny played a concert with Pete Seeger at Carnegie Hall in 1958, further illustrating Sonny’s connection into the Folk scene

38:04 - In 1958 Sonny and Brownie toured the UK with the Chris Barber Jazz band, which exposed them to a British audience laying the bedrock for the British Blues boom of the 1960s

39:09 - Sonny and Brownie were popular with audiences because they were entertaining

39:48 - Sonny and Brownie took part in the American Folk and Blues festivals in Europe

41:21 - Sonny and Brownie were regulars on the festival circuit, including playing at the first Newport Folk Festival in 1959

41:58 - Sonny had the ability to play unaccompanied, which not many other harmonica players can

42:51 - Sonny and Brownie performed in the Broadway production of Cat On A Hot Tin Roof and they were at their pinnacle through the 1950s and 60s

44:14 - Some great albums released through the 1960s, including Sonny’s Story

44:47 - Recorded an album with Lightning Hopkins

45:05 - Sonny Is King is another great album from the 1960s, where he does his ‘I Want My Mama’ talking harmonica ‘trick’ and earlier recordings of this from other players

47:05 - Sonny and Brownie sometimes played as part of a full band together, which they may have done at the request of the record company

48:16 - Drinkin’ In The Blues is an example of the tension that could exist on stage between Sonny and Brownie

50:51 - Paul tells of times he saw tension between Sonny and Brownie

51:17 - Paul addresses the accusation that Sonny played the same licks a lot of the time as that was his style, and all the early players were the same, and it brought them success

52:28 - Little Walter broke the mould by not playing the same stock licks

53:16 - The breakdown in the relationship between Sonny and Brownie led to them playing less together in the mid-1970s and their last concert together may have been in 1981

55:00 - Guitarist Johnny Winter recorded an album with Sonny in 1984, with Johnny wanting to bring some exposure back on Sonny

55:50 - Paul says Johnny Winter wanted to put a Chicago style backing behind Sonny, something which Brownie never did

57:22 - Sonny Terry died on March 11, 1986, age 74, in Queens, New York

57:39 - Sonny recorded in the film Crossroads, performing with Ry Cooder, and Paul has a picture of Sonny playing with Ry Cooder shortly before Sonny died

58:22 - Sonny was inducted into the Blues Hall of Fame in 1986 (the year he died)

58:27 - In 1998 Sonny was featured on a US postage stamp, meaning he had more licks than any other harmonica player!

59:18 - Sonny’s vocals, and how the whooping, hollering and falsetto probably came from his street performing when young

01:01:41 - Although many people think Brownie had the better voice, Paul thinks Sonny had a beautiful, honest sounding voice

01:02:39 - Sonny and Brownie released a huge amount of albums, and Chris Smith published a complete discography in 1999 entitled “That’s The Stuff - The recordings of Sonny Terry, Brownie McGhee, Sticks McGhee and JC Burris”

01:03:46 - Sonny’s style of harmonica is based on a wide array of rhythmical playing and his ability to play unaccompanied

01:05:33 - Adam’s admires Sonny’s rhythm, tone, including the tone of his chords

01:06:00 - Joe challenges every harmonica player to learn a chordal groove in Sonny’s style

01:07:08 - Various movie appearances with Sonny playing harmonica, include: The Jerk with Steve Martin, The Colour Purple, The Book of Numbers, and more

01:07:38 - In 1982 Sonny and Brownie both received a National Heritage Fellowship awarded by National Endowment for the Arts

01:08:01 - Adam’s favourite song is Sonny’s Squall from the Midnight Special album

01:08:40 - Joe picks out three of his favourite Sonny songs, including Lost John with Woody Guthrie

01:11:28 - Some of Paul’s favourite songs are Down By The Riverside and Blowin’ The Fuses

01:12:24 - Sonny mainly played Hohner Marine Bands and Golden Melodies

01:12:57 - Unlikely Sonny had his harmonicas customised but his bottom octave chord sounded in tune on the Golden Melodies, which may suggest otherwise

01:14:22 - Sonny could just make a stock harmonica work to how he wanted it to sound

01:15:11 - Sonny liked the low range of standard diatonic harmonicas, mainly playing on keys A, Bb, B and C

01:16:34 - The lower range of harmonicas used was probably because they work well for rhythmical playing, and also for his falsetto singing range

01:17:04 - Didn’t play any chromatic harmonica, although was photographed with one in a photoshoot, probably because you can see them in photos

01:17:23 - Sonny played some songs in straight harp with Brownie

01:18:01 - Embouchre, thought to be a pucker player but Joe hears a lot of tongue blocking, played in a unique way

01:18:21 - Paul demonstrates some embouchre techniques he used

01:18:53 - Joe talks about Sonny’s use of ‘tongue shakes’

01:19:46 - Mainly used tongue blocking as part of his rhythm playing

01:20:20 - Mainly played through a vocal mic, but started cupping the mic later in career as Brownie started using an amp

01:20:42 - Did some recordings through an amp but he played the same as his acoustic style, so didn’t sound much different

01:21:31 - Sonny did play through an amplifier on a few tracks

01:22:45 - Sonny didn’t use effects pedals but Joe thinks he was the best player at summoning his own effects straight out of the harmonica

01:23:18 - Made great use of hand effects

01:24:36 - Sonny’s influence on Adam

01:25:04 - Paul Lamb was also an inspiration to Adam (and me!)

01:25:47 - Sonny’s influence on Paul and he considers Sonny to be the greatest

01:26:45 - Joe pays credit to Adam and Paul’s harmonica contributions

01:27:05 - Joe’s final words on Sonny and his influence and Joe also thinks Sonny was the greatest diatonic player ever

01:27:44 - Joe advocates putting the time in to work on Sonny’s rhythm playing

01:30:03 - Paul says working on Sonny's groove will open the door in your playing