The harmonica playing of Bob Dylan with Ross Garren, Rob Paparozzi and Liam Ward

01:46 - Neil was a big Bob Dylan fan in his late teens

02:24 - Ross played the vast majority of songs in the movie and on the soundtrack and was involved in the project for a long time for Rob got involved

02:45 - Rob got involved to help with cast someone to play a mid-forties Sonny Terry, which turned out to be Steve Bell (Carey Bell’s Son)

03:26 - Ross actually played the Sonny Terry part though, not Steve Bell (who appears in the movie)

03:39 - The music side of the movie was done by a team who worked on The Color Purple from a few years back, which Ross also worked on

04:19 - Ross recorded the harmonica parts in LA, then filming moved to New York, where most of the movie was recorded

04:35 - Ross and Rob both provided harmonica coaching to Timothee Chamalet on how to play the harmonica

05:41 - Ross started working on the movie around two years before it was released

06:36 - The movie was originally incepted before Covid, but that and the movie writer’s strike delayed it, giving Timothee Chamalet plenty of time to prep to play the music and to play Dylan

07:26 - Ross gave about five harmonica coaching sessions to Timothee

08:04 - Ross and Rob are on the credits on the movie as ‘harmonica coaches’

08:17 - Rob’s role as harmonica coach was to coach Timothee on how to mime to the harmonica parts Ross had already recorded with Timothee keen on it looking authentic

09:50 - Rob coached Timothee to play a part on harmonica which Rob thinks Timothee recorded for the movie

11:50 - Timothee recorded parts of the movie with the harmonica reeds removed so he could mime, with Tom Halchak at Blue Moon providing some harmonicas for the movie

12:48 - Liam has done some harmonica coaching for a movie in the UK where they used harmonicas without reeds

13:24 - Liam found that the film makers want exaggerated movements from actors playing the harmonica and did Ross and Rob also coach Timothee on authentic harmonica movements

14:51 - Ross recorded a lot of material that wasn’t used in the movie and some of songs were more complicated which may have called for more miming from Timothee, rather than playing them

15:51 - Rob decided it was better to coach Timothee with a rack on, as that is how he would be filming it

16:39 - Dylan was often quirky and erratic in his movements when playing harmonica, and how to teach Timothee to do that

17:22 - Timothee put a lot of work in to get the visual parts of playing the harmonica correct

17:38 - Rob tried to get Timothee to use an authentic rack from the 60s but Timothee found it uncomfortable so didn’t use it

18:32 - Hohner Marine Bands were used in the movie, and Golden Melodies weren’t out at that time

19:04 - Rob gave some Big River harmonicas (via Blue Moon) to the movie crew

19:15 - The different parts of the harmonica community involved in the movie across the US

19:29 - Kinya Pollard also provide some harmonicas for the movie

20:32 - Ross did lots of recording for the movie, around 150 hours, much of it at home in his studio. Lots of these recordings weren’t used

22:08 - Made extra recordings at the end which synced better with the visuals on the movie

22:34 - Ross is interested in how they mixed the sound for different ambient conditions

24:13 - Harmonica features heavily in the movie

24:31 - Rob compliments Ross on how he played the Dylan parts, considering his unorthodox style

25:34 - Rob recorded some harmonica on a Judy Collins Dylan album

26:11 - Recording sessions often call for specific parts, like Dylan, or Neil Young, which aren’t the sort of harmonica session harmonica players play like

26:43 - How Ross went about learning some of Dylan’s harmonica parts

27:38 - Ross thinks Dylan could well be the most well known harmonica player

28:10 - Did Dylan start the revolution of singer / songwriters playing harmonica on a rack?

28:27 - Woody Guthrie played on a rack and no doubt inspired Dylan to do so

29:44 - Jimmy Reed also played on a rack before Dylan

29:57 - Ross hasn’t done a recording session where he had to emulate a player so closely before

31:04 - For the informal / live clips in movie Ross listened to Dylan live clips to learn them

31:32 - Ross decided not to use a rack when recording the parts for the movie as he isn’t an accomplished rack player

32:01 - Ross had to be careful not to add hand effects when playing the parts with the harmonica in his hands

32:38 - Are a couple of scenes in movie where Dylan played harmonica held in hands

33:16 - Ross watched some videos of Dylan playing harmonica so could learn some of his physical movements when playing harmonica

33:50 - Dylan has a strong attack when playing harmonica

34:17 - Balance Ross tried to strike between playing Dylan note for note and capturing the hectic vibe of his playing

35:58 - Recapturing the early 1960s recording techniques was another challenge

36:34 - Ross took all day to record the Sonny Terry scene, with Joe Filisko providing remote support

37:07 - Ross was keen to represent the playing of Dylan and Sonny Terry accurately

37:41 - There is a soundtrack album available of the movie where you can hear the songs Ross and Rob play on

38:45 - Liam runs the very successful Learn The Harmonica website and did a ‘Bob Dylan’ week where he tabbed out five songs of Dylan, available on YouTube

39:26 - One of the first YouTube videos Liam made was on a Dylan song, and the difficulty in tabbing out Dylan’s playing

40:38 - Dylan was the reason Liam took up the harmonica and he defends Dylan’s playing

41:16 - In the videos Liam teaches the melody lines of the songs, rather than closely tabbing out Dylan’s playing

41:39 - Dylan plays a lot of melodic lines

42:01 - Liam tries to teach by pointing students in the right direction and allowing space for students to work part of it out themselves

43:12 - Ross discusses how the nuances of harmonica playing often don’t lend themselves well to tab

44:04 - Ross had to learn live versions as well as studio versions of Dylan’s playing

44:39 - Ross studied Dylan’s style so much that he picked up the nuances of his playing more than with any other players he’s studied

45:56 - Rob talks of how Dylan’s playing is put down, but that it’s actually difficult to emulate

47:03 - Dylan played quite a bit of second position

47:11 - When Dylan played (and plays) as a solo artist, the harmonica is his only melodic instrument and he captures a lot of different moods with it

49:33 - Dylan’s playing is very relatable to people and his music has a rawness, with the music supporting that

49:54 - Similar artists (such as Bruce Springsteen and Tom Petty) use the harmonica in a similar, simple manner, which is equally appealing to the audience

50:19 - Dylan defines what the harmonica means to a lot of people, despite it’s rudimentary level

50:46 - Playing the rack is a limiting factor, but he always serves the song and is quite possibly the best songwriter ever (having also won the Nobel Prize for Literature)

51:26 - Liam picked out 30 favourite Dylan harmonica songs

52:07 - Liam shares rough percentages of the positions used by Dylan: 1st position 60%, 2nd position 35%, 4th position on a few songs, one 5th and one 12th position

54:06 - First eight albums have most harmonica, that dwindled for a while but then made a comeback

54:23 - Some of Liam’s favourite Dylan harmonica songs

55:06 - ‘Music isn’t about ability but suitability’

55:34 - Dylan has recorded harmonica on over 150 songs and bad solos only really appear on live recordings (not studio recordings)

56:34 - Liam believes the vilification he receives from some of the harmonica community is uncalled for

56:45 - Dylan is probably the most commonly known harmonica player to the man on the street and the responsibility that brings to him as a harmonica player is probably unfair

58:12 - Dylan did some session work as a harmonica player only (not on a rack) early in his career

59:06 - One of Neil’s favourite harmonica songs of Dylan’s is Pledging My Time

59:45 - Ross likes some of the less polished harmonica performances from Dylan, and the uniqueness of each performance

01:01:16 - Dylan and Neil Young are two of the most famous harmonica players and they deserve respect for that

01:02:04 - Dylan is known for having a bad singing voice, especially later in his career, and possible impact on his harmonica tone

01:02:29 - Dylan also plays piano

01:02:36 - Liam saw Dylan around 2010 and couldn’t recognise a lot of the songs

01:03:12 - Dylan is a creative force and his harmonica playing is part of that

01:03:51 - Liam appreciates Dylan’s imperfections, making him what he is

01:04:39 - You hear so many acoustic guitar players trying to sound like Dylan on the rack harmonica, without getting his distinctive sound

01:05:02 - Dylan has recorded plenty of blues songs on his early albums, but didn’t play harmonica on them, maybe in deference to good blues harmonica playing

01:07:39 - The harmonica has a certain innocence in pop music by being played in a rudimentary style by certain famous artists, including Dylan

01:09:04 - Dylan used part of Paul Butterfield’s band when he went electric, and Butterfield may have inspired Dylan’s electric set at the Newport Folk Festival in 1965

01:09:43 - Dylan never really played or recorded ‘proper’ blues harmonica, or played amplified blues harmonica

01:10:13 - Dylan used some blues harmonica players in later recordings, including Sugar Blue on the Desire album (although the songs never made the final album)

01:10:24 - Charlie McCoy played on the Blonde On Blonde album

01:10:30 - The harmonica was an important part of the complete whole of a Dylan songs

01:11:04 - More on Dylan playing blues songs, without much, if any, playing of blues harmonica

01:11:51 - Dylan only used session harmonica players occasionally, as he wanted to play the harmonica parts himself

01:12:27 - The crowd would goes wild when Dylan plays harmonica at one of his live shows

01:13:04 - An article ‘Dylan Master Harpist’ by Mike Johnson compares Dylan’s harmonica playing to John Coltrane and Charlie Parker

01:13:43 - A wealth of online material on Dylan’s harmonica, as well as books and You Tube videos tutorials

01:14:01 - Dylan’s extensive use of the E diatonic and Liam’s breakdown of keys used by Dylan: G harp 23%, C harp 20%, E harp 15%

01:15:35 - The remaining keys Dylan uses are in a typical order of common use: D, A, F, Bb, Eb, Ab, F#, Db, B

01:16:20 - All Along The Watchtower is played in 4th position and Dylan more recently may have used minor tuned harmonicas

01:17:09 - Rob owns one of Dylan’s chromatic harmonicas

01:17:43 - Don’t believe Dylan has ever played any chromatic harmonica, although used one in photoshoots

01:18:01 - Dylan played Hohner Marine Bands, then Special 20s and Blues Harps

01:18:12 - Hohner released a Bob Dylan signature model diatonic, one of which Rob sent to Timothee Chamalet

01:19:14 - Ross felt the study he made of Dylan’s playing in preparation for the movie recordings really helped him look closely at it for the first time

01:20:27 - Some of the things Ross learned from Dylan’s harmonica playing included tone and note density, and being effective with a relatively limited technique

01:22:11 - Dylan has the ability to summon different moods and flavours with his harmonica across a range of different songs

01:22:46 - With the early songs recorded in mono, they sound different with modern playback techniques

01:24:22 - Dylan is what got Rob playing harmonica, with his brother a fan when young and so exposing Rob to his music

01:24:56 - As a session harmonica player Rob feels it’s his job to be able to emulate players like Dylan, as the session demands

01:26:13 - Rob congratulates Ross on the amazing job he did recording for the A Complete Unknown movie, and Ross is the new Tommy Morgan

01:26:36 - The movie will bring more exposure to the harmonica

01:26:53 - Dylan was the inspiration for Liam to take up the harmonica and to give him his career now in the harmonica and has come full circle in looking at Dylan again

01:28:10 - Liam thanks Ross and Rob for their work on the movie and the mainstream exposure it brings to the harmonica

01:28:41 - Liam is hopeful that there is more to come from Dylan’s harmonica

01:28:58 - Neil’s closing remarks are that he has enjoyed re-listening to Dylan’s songs as part of the podcast preparation and remembering how much he loves the songs and the part the harmonica play in them